Category: Getting to Know You
Ok all you deep thinkers here is a question to wrap your minds around. Do you think it is wrong, in the persuit of happiness to steal a mate from another?
Well...honestly...i don't think you're actually stealing if that person wants to be with you.
Wow, tough one. As a rule I would not ever feel justified in suggesting e.g. that someone be with me in addition to their relationship i.e. that someone would cheat in order to be with me. How could I respect that person and if I truly loved that person and she made me happy I could never trust her becauase of the way things started out. If she cheated to be with me, how could I possible b convinced she wouldn't cheat on someone else whilst being with me.
Now if two people, one of whom is dating, are chatting and they really feel attracted to one another I think it's ok for the one not dating to reveal his/her own attraction without being pushy about it. And if the person who is dating is no loner happy in his/her relationship that might lead to the end of that relationship giving those two people a chance to see what the attraction was all about.
There are so many bad husbands and wonderful lovers e.g. in movies, now the wife runs away with the lover and sometimes he turns out to be nice, sometimes not, haven't really seen many books or movies that tackle how those relationships really fare in the long run, what if you give up everything for a momentary lapse of romance and two weeks later realize it was just the excitement and novelty that made it interesting and that you have no way back.
Ultimately though, it's the person who is in a reltionship who is responsible for drawing the boundries and will let the other person get as far as they feel confortable with. I think really hitting on someone who is dating and suggest he/she cheats or breaks off the relationship without being prompted to do so is desperate and sad, expressing one's feelings I think is ok and, oh, never ever ever ever hit on the mate of one of your friends (no, I do not speak from personal experience) a friend is your friend for life, it's not worth it to destroy that over someone he's dating
Cheers B good answer! Personilly, I think it is for the person in the relationship to decide weather or not to leave the relationship. At what point is it considered cheating. Is the intension to leave alone grounds for cheating? If the party involved with another begins to look outside the relationship how can that person be considered cheating. Does there have to be a declaration of intent on the part of the mate who is looking outside his or her relationship? At what point should the unhappy person make his or her intensions known? Should the other party in the relationship not shoulder some of the weight for their partner stepping out? Food for thought. By the way I am in a relationship with no plans to step out. just thought I would clarify.
Hmm dr. very good questions and that's the fine line of course. :) There's no reason for you e.g. to be in a relationship with one person if you'd rather be with someone else (unless you are married or have kids together, in which case it's more complicated because you have all these responsibilities and official promises you made etc that will tie you more closely with your partner).
And, yes, you may be with someone and think that's the one and then realize someone comes along that just is so much closer to what you think of as perfect, what do you do?
Well, my main point came out of my friend's experience, he's been dating this married woman for years, she pretends to love him but is degrading him to the statue of a sex object and I can't have any respect for her and I can't believe he lets himself be treated this way. I'd say if they met and talked a lot and did not spend the first night together in bed the intension is more along the lines of friendship. If the person in the unhappy relationships feels he/she would be better of with the person he/she just met, well, do they do stuff together physically or do they talk about it, is that cheating, if the partner is let go right after they do physical stuff, is that cheating, if somehow things fade out after a week and everyone forgets but the people still spent a night together, that's cheating obviously. The notion of cheating is so tied to the physical things people do, not to their thoughts, fantasies or feelings, that's the confusing part, where do you draw the line, there is a line but people disagree on where to draw it. :)
Cheers
-B
Well personally I think that it should never get to the point where either partner has to start looking outside the relationship to be happy. It is at that point that it is too late. If you have a strong line of communication with your partner then you should both know that one or the other is unhappy and should work on the issues at hand.
Lady, I think it's well said
yeah, although a strong line of communication may help you out a little.
at the same time, with that you can't always tell if the other one is unhappy. they may just hide it in fear of hurting you. I mean to some the line of communication may show that you care, and the other it may be a safe haven. , by this i mean the one that is thinking of straying or is straying may be using this line of communication to find out if you know anything about what they are doing outside the relationship! So the communication thing can work both ways don't you think?
Do you think it is wrong, in the pursuit of happiness, to steal at all? How about lie? Cheat? Rape? Pillage? Exploit? KILL!!!?
There may be many things we want in life, and there may be many things we could do that would make us happier. But at what cost? How do we decide which things are allowable and which are not to pursue? It all depends upon the construct upon which you define happiness to begin with. Check out www.twth.org to see what I'm talking about.
Well I think that if someone is trying to use communication to see if you know anything then they are being manipulative and deceptive from the beginning and why would you want to be with that type of person (unless you are that type of person too and find that acceptable (you as in general terms))...which has nothing to do with not hurting you...that makes it intentional to me. I must say that if the person really loves you then he/she would tell you the truth because in the end the longer you lie about it the worst the situation can become and the worse it will hurt the person(s) involved.
Interesting points to ponder all of them. Phasenating that you chose to open the relm of happiness to incumpis different ways people use to atain that for which they seek. I would however like to keep this in the relm of dating and relationships though. Any one of those points you pointed out about rape pillageing, and plundering, would perplex the mind. Wildabrew spoke the unspoken when he said that you should never steal from your friend. However let me ask the question if that friend is doing wrong and you know that friend is doing wrong, is it not your personal duty to take action if your feelings grow for the one who is being wrong? When, and why, do you forsake your happiness for that of a rather selfish person? To address the notion that communation is the foundation of a strong relationship. Sure that person could manipulate the relationship b fact finding expaditions, however Actions often speak louder then words. What people say, and what people do, often times do not coinside. Also, we must factor in that people understand in different ways. I E the entire message could get lost in the translation leaving the unhappy person just as fustrated as when they had not expressed their feelings. Oh yes, and where is the line drawen, when is it considered cheating? Does the golden rule apply? I enjoy all of your thoughts. Lets keep it up.
Here here. Actions do speak louder than words, but words when spoken in truth form go hand in hand with what is shown. You can fool anyone by going throuhg the motions just as much as you can by lying to their face. Anyone can be fooled if they want to be. Some people choose not to see things. Often times people don't want to face adversity because they don't know how to embrace change. So where is the line drawn? I think that varies with each individual and if you know your partner and have a very open line of communication then you should be aware of what your partner expects from you... in return they should know what you expect of them. Of course all of this comes in time. It is truely funny how you can spend every day with the same person and not know them at all and spend very little time with others and know them so well.
Well, communication isn't easy for everybody, and, again, where do you draw the line, if, say, you feel a little crush for someone (for whatever reason) when you're dating, if you tell the other person that right away for honesty's sake it's likely to break up your relationship, even if you know this is just something silly and temporary and you, in no way, act on that thing at all. It's sometimes also hard to communicate and you don't do it for fear of ruining everything. I know I've been in a situation where I should've been more comunnicative and wasn't but the main reason I wasn't was to avoid hurting the other person and I thought it was just me feeling weird about things and I thought I'd get over that. It ended up not being the case and by the time we talked about it there was too much frustration. So, yeah, open communication is key, but I don't think not communicating with your partner essentially implies you're lying to their face or that you're selfish or deceptive, I think not wanting to hurt the other persona unnecessarily is something to be considered and you need to seek a balance, I think people who are too honest and insist on telling you every little thing even if you may find it very unconfortable are quite as likely to wreck your relationship. Well, for me, if I have a close friend and if I had a crush on his girl friend, evenif he wasn't treating her right, I would not intervene for the reasons outlined above. I don't think that it's reallymy business how my friend treats his/her relationships, I will tell that person my opinion but I think if you have a crush on your friend's partner you will start taking a more subjective approach to the situation and will concentrate on his wrong doing. I mean, if you ever talk to people who got divorsed it's inevitably always all the other person's fault. The truth is never this simple it takes two people to have a relationships and two people to mess it up, well one person will actually be the "offender" but the reasons behind it have to do with both people in a relationship and, as said above, you must know when to try and tackle those reasons and fix them or when to bow out and persue other people because you know it won't work. You can't keep someone else happy if you are not and if there is nothing else like marriage or kids keeping you together you shouldn't be with someone who does not make you happy, in the long run it'll make the other person unhappy too. I'm not talking just little things that annoy you or something like that, we all have out petty annoying habits or things or our bad days, but someone who genuinely you don't feel happy with.
Cheers
-B
Hmmm. I have had some interesting emotions running through my mind reading this. On the surface, I would say yes, it would be wrong. However, reading what's being said here, and thinkign of my own situation, it's not so black and white. I am attracted to a lady right now who is currently in a relationship, and she has also expressed an attraction towards me. She and her boyfriend do have their good times, this past week being one of them. However, they also have issues that need to be worked out if they can, or if both parties are devoted to doing so. I mean, there is no guarantee that we would be happy together if given the chance. Still, both of us felt that attraction instantly, and we've been talking now for over 14 months. I have made it a point to refrain from trying to talk her into leaving her boyfriend for me, and for the most part, I think I've succeeded. We have the closest of friendships, and first and foremost, I don't want to jepordize that by trying to show any disrespect in any way, or attempt to manipulate things for my benefit. What would that prove? If she and I do end up together, neither of us will be able to say that I stole her away. It will all be her decision. Yes, it is a gamble for me. If nothing else, I made probably the best friend I've ever had. Ok, so there are my thoughts.
well... it can be yes and it can be rong. depends on how you see it.
Kwork Thank you for bringing this so close to home. It goes to show that sometimes we do not know what we would do until we are placed in the situation. Wildabrew my hats off to you sir, there are still gentelman in the world. We have established that it takes two to make a relationship, and it also takes two to break a relationship. Having stolen a girlfriend, and having one stolen from me I can empathize with all of you. You have all made great points. My take on the whole thing is this. Love is as fragel as rice paper. to keep your rice paper in tact you must realize your own limatations and you must find a way to express to your partnin a very direct way that this is what you expect from the relationship. and vice versa. There is always one who cares more in a relationship than another, and that role is reversed over ad over again. A relationship is a constant self exsamination, and if you do not include your partner in the exsamination you might end up growing without your partner. I think we persue the opposit gender of our selves. the um to our yong. I really don't think you can steal someone, you can plant the seed however it is up to the person leaving to nurture the idea and to make the choice to leave.
D-
I would only steal a partner from a friend or brother if the person was being abused neglected or was dreadfully unhappy for some other reason apart from that no! never!I've had this happen to me and the effect was not pretty.
An interesting thread. I agree that good communication skills are essential to any relationship but I also think there are times that you don't need to inform your partner on every little thing such as attractions to someone else that you haven't and may never act upon. If there are issues that are making one partner unhappy those need to be communicated. Yet there are no easy answers to this, I have been on both sides of this and at the time all the emotional upheaval is happening, one thing might appear to be the right thing while in later reflection things could have been handled differently.
We seem to focous on the fact that a relationship works if both people are voicing their concerns about the relationship. There is a song that says "when a woman's fed up, no matter how you beg, there ain't nothing you can do about it." Keeping that in mind, do you think there is anything you could say to keep your partner from straying?
Unless you really can get to the bottom of why she's fed up I doubt it,of course she may be using that as excuse and the real reason may be just as painful
Unless you really can get to the bottom of why she's fed up I doubt it,of course she may be using that as excuse and the real reason may be just as painful
Hi: I think if someone is genuinely fed up with the relationship and comes to the end of their rope it has gone past the point of negotiation and if someone wants out, it's over. Have been there, done that.
Agree with Lana. The whole begging thing usually does not work, being overly intrussive and suspicious doesn't work either. If anything the person should withdraw and give the other person a bit more space to "figure things out" I think that's the only thing that could save a relationship. At least for me I hate it when I feel I have no personal space or breathing room in a relationship, that I can't see my friends or do my things sometimes. It doesn't have to be all the time but even if I am very happy and in love and everything I still need my spare time and space. It's created some problems in past relationships but I think with trust and understanding that's something that both people should have. I've seen people who start dating and then stop seeing their frriends, going to parties or dinner invitations etc and spend all their time with each other. I don't think it's healthy or right to do that, you must have your own life too, I think. :)
Any other opinions.
cheers
-B
Hi: I've seen what you describe happen all too often. I've had friends that once they got into a relationship I didn't hear from again until it was over. I think it's great for couples to have mutual friends but it is healthy for individuals to have their own friends as well and not give up things they were interested in before. If people are together 24/7 what can they talk about of interest when they are together all the time? Smile.